Xotcl

xotcl@alice.wu.ac.at

2 participants
653 discussions

getting full name object
by mail＠xdobry.de 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

Hi! I work currently with 1.3.2 and have one problem that relate to namespace handling. I would need new object method that could return full name of object (similar to "namespace origin" command) I could not find any possibility to get it from build-in Object methods. I would expect that "self" or "my" on object would work. So I must programm new global Object instproc: Object instproc fullname {} { self } so it work Object a a fullname >::a Is were any better possibility to get the same result? If not it could be idee to extend object base interface (for example info command) Artur Trzewik

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RE: [Xotcl] xotcllib?
by Schofield, Bryan (GE Transportation) 19 Oct '04

19 Oct '04

I've cut a bunch of the older email content out for brevity. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Hobbs [mailto:jeffh@ActiveState.com] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 4:44 PM > To: Schofield, Bryan (GE Transportation); xotcl(a)alice.wu-wien.ac.at > Subject: RE: [Xotcl] xotcllib? > > [...] > While I don't want to discourage good coding exercises, I > do want to encourage others to use code based on all the > best practices. We don't have a perfect megawidget > framework to rely on yet, but hopefully you'll be willing > to take part when we get around to it, or maybe work on > yours until it is that system. ;) This actually started out as a coding exercise just to play with the new forwarding features of xotcl. I look forward to day that there is an "official" megawidget framework, but in the mean time, I do plan on enhancing mine to cover it's short comings. [...] > > Hmmmm ... ok, you have created something more for users to > define their own themes, whereas 'style' says "these are > better overall alternate themes". I must say that I > personally encourage the latter. It's a pity you couldn't > make it to Tcl'2004 last week, because I had a tutorial > and talk on these points. I don't mean to pick on you, I > just want to give my ideas and how they may affect your > current efforts. > > The whole idea of themeing, which will be core in 8.5, is > to enable a better look for Tk. However, it is not > intended for the user (in the common case) to change this > theme. The functionality is there merely for Tk to better > adapt to current styles. Thus, the 'style' code defines > styles for users to just use, rather than providing a > framework to create their own. First, I don't take any of your comments personally. While I consider myself a good developer, I know that I'm not perfect and can be blinded my own intentions, motivations, and enthusiasm to create something new. Not to mention the fact that I know I don't know everything. I welcome your comments, as well as the comments of so many others. Just clear up my intentions with xcentuate, it isn't really meant to be used for each application to define it's own look and feel. While it is very easy to do so, I'd hope that developers will respect the look and feel of the platform on which they will deploy. My main motivation was to improve how tk looks on my unix workstation. Currently, xcentuate only changes the theme on unix, by default it's a light grey theme which is suitable for brighter environments. It also provides a dark grey theme which works nicely in darker office settings. I think that xcentuate and 'style' share the same goal. Xcentuate, too, provides some "better alternate themes", it just goes one step further by making it very easy to define what the themes are. That makes it easy for corporate branding. For example, the system I work on is beige in color during normal operation. However, the same application can be launched in a training mode which is aqua in color. I can also have a "development" color mode to distinguish application instances that are in beta against those that running live. With xcentuate, the application look is simplified to: switch -- $mode { TRAINING { aquaLook apply } DEVELOP { devLook apply } default { normalLook apply } } [...] > OK, I've dealt with this before. There is nothing in the > naming of that test that requires it be numbers, that is > just convention. It makes it easier for grouping and such, > and is handy when searching through the test suite after > failures. In your example below: > > > file would be structured as follows: > > > > TestSuite foo \ > > -description "blah" \ > > -setup {set file [makeFile {} test]} \ > > -cleanup {removeFile test} > > foo test \ > > -description "test file existence" > > -result 1 \ > > -script {file exists $file} > > What happens when you don't provide a description? This > should be a required field, as it is in tcltest, so why > have it an option? Otherwise, I see the structure you > have chosen could make it easier to build tests. By the default, the description is "No Description Available". So nothing happens if it is not provided. Much like the following: test foo-1.1 {} \ -result 1 \ -body { set x 1 } Sure, tcltest makes it a required field, but it doesn't ensure there is anything meaningful in it. If you really think about, the description is optional in tcltest, too. Now... having spent the time to write xout and the ui that goes with it, I've (begrudgingly) accepted the following: 1. Tcl does not need another another a testing framework. Choice is not always beneficial, and in this case I think it would hurt tcl overall. It's hard enough to get people to write tests; no point in muddying up the water with something else. 2. Having to name my tests (example-1.1) isn't that much more work. Calling "cleanupTests" isn't a big deal either, so I'll just do it and quit whining. 3. My efforts would have been better spent adding a ui to tcltest. I think I'll do that. 4. It took suprisingly little time to convert my xout test files to tcltest files. [...] > I like the UI you added to it. Thanks, I think I'll redo it to work with tcltest. [...] > No problem, and I don't want to sound negative. I'm just > trying to assist constructively. As I've told Gustaf and > Uwe before, xotcl (or some close variant) could be the OO > for the core, if it provided 100% itcl compatability (for > the many many folks that rely on itcl). > > Jeff You don't sound negative. Thanks, I appreciate your opinion, Jeff. Didn't Gustaf whip up something that was itcl compatible, at least to some degree? And does it need to be 100% itcl or 100% itcl/itk? -- bryan

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RE: [Xotcl] xotcllib?
by Schofield, Bryan (GE Transportation) 18 Oct '04

18 Oct '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Hobbs [mailto:jeffh@ActiveState.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 6:22 PM > To: Schofield, Bryan (GE Transportation); xotcl(a)alice.wu-wien.ac.at > Subject: RE: [Xotcl] xotcllib? > > > > xow - A megawidget framework. This is a package that allows > > xotcl objects to be megawidgets. > > Does this handle the option db correctly, do composition > of megawidgets, handle focus and events right, etc.? No, currently doesn't handle the option db. This is a tricky area of building megawidgets. An xow widget can be based off of any other existing widget or megawidget. That can make things a little more complicated since xow widgets can & will pick up option db settings for base widgets and the -class option isn't available for most widgets. Personally, I am aware of this shortcoming and work around it. I'd rather not have this feature than have one that works partially and is unpredictable. Since I haven't had the time to devote to writing a complete implementation, I haven't done anything with it. There is no special code to handle composition of megawidgets, focus, or event processing. > > > xcentuate - a theme engine for tk. This isn't all that > > important on windows, but on unix tk often needs a little > > help looking good. This package provides a very simple method > > of defining and changing the look of tk apps. It can even do > > it on the fly. > > I would not propagate this in favor of Tile. There is > also already the 'style' package in tklib (which again > may be abortive when Tile becomes part of 8.5). What > features does xcentuate really provide? Should they not > just go into 'style'? I'm not sure what "style" package you are refering to. I see none in the docs for TkLib, but maybe I missed them or it's not in the latest official release. I did manage to google up a "as::style" package that you appear to have written. So I'll assume that's the package to which you refer. xcentuate provides the common things like colors and borderwidth for widgets. It also provides some named colors and eventually named fonts. I have some good font generation routines already, I just need to convert them to xotcl and integrate them. The widget classes and options applied to those classes are not hard coded in xcentuate. It can be trained to apply style to new widget classes or change what options are applied. Finally, xcentuate is OO. I like objects, I like them alot. This package works well for me but I look forward to Tile being part of 8.5 so I can declare this obsolete. Below is an example of a LookAndFeel that shows what xcentuate can control right now. This particuler LookAndFeel gets applied by default on unix. Xcentuate will also learn what tk looks like by default so there is always a "default" LookAndFeel that can be applied. Oh, xcentuate can change styles (LookAndFeels) on the fly. LookAndFeel lightgrey \ -name "Light Grey" \ -description "A simple light grey palette" \ -activebackground grey90 \ -activeforeground red \ -background grey80 \ -disabledbackground grey85 \ -disabledforeground grey40 \ -foreground black \ -highlightbackground grey80 \ -highlightcolor red \ -insertbackground red \ -readonlybackground grey90 \ -selectbackground skyblue \ -selectcolor red \ -selectforeground black \ -textbackground white \ -textforeground black \ -troughcolor grey75 \ -borderwidth 1 \ -labelframepad 4 \ -labelframebd 2 \ -texterrorbg \#fee \ -texterrorfg red3 \ -textwarnbg PeachPuff \ -textwarnfg orange2 \ -textokbg \#dfd \ -textokfg green3 \ -textnotebg \#ffd \ -textnotefg yellow3 \ -textinfobg \#def \ -textinfofg blue2 lightgrey apply > > > xout - a unit testing framework. I know, I know, tcl already > > provides one, tcltest. But I found tcltest to be too > > cumbersome and clunky. I'd write some tests, but maintaining > > those tests often was neglected because of the amount of > > programming overhead needed to write complex test cases. xout > > Did you compare against tcltest v1 or v2? Version 2. Tcltest is more powerful, no question about that. But for testing complex scenarios, I like to build on the success of one test later. For example, consider the following distinct events that I can test, where later tests use something from previous tests. 1. Can I create object X? 2. Can object X do something? 3. Can object X do something else? 4. Can I delete object X and it clean up properly? Thing can get way more complicated than that, too. Imagine trying to test db or remote server interaction. With tcltest, I'd have to create object X or connect to a db or server in the setup of every test. I can appreciate isolating tests from one another so that one test doesn't impact another, which is what tcltest does. To achieve that, I have two level in my test hierachy. One is the TestSuite. No two suites can interact with each other. They run in their own iterpreter from scratch. A TestSuite has one or more Tests that *can* interact with each other. Also, on a side note, I hate having to specify a test name with tcltest. test example-1.1 {test file existence} -setup { set file [makeFile {} test] } -body { file exists $file } -cleanup { removeFile test } -result 1 It's fine until you realize next month that you need a new test, and that it make more sense from a readability viewpoint to stick it in between example-1.1 and example-1.2. Do I call it example-1.1.5 or renumber the other tests below? The test name doesn't add much to me, the tester. It's the description that matters. For comparison purposes, xout test file would be structured as follows: TestSuite foo \ -description "blah" \ -setup {set file [makeFile {} test]} \ -cleanup {removeFile test} foo test \ -description "test file existence" -result 1 \ -script {file exists $file} Finally, xout is only a framework. It can be embedded into other applications such as an IDE. That can easily find and query TestSuite objects to run and get their results. Just so happens that the GUI can also be embedded in or run standalone. > > > I mention all of this because if other have some handy xotcl > > packages, I'd be interested in creating a formal xotcllib > > project. Perhaps something at sourceforge. I'll be making > > these available soon either way. > > I think that would be a handy thing as an addon. > > Jeff Hobbs, The Tcl Guy > http://www.ActiveState.com/, a division of Sophos > > I threw some screen shots of xcentuate & xout in action on my (unfinished) website if anyone wants to take a look. http://www.abschofield.com/code/ss/ Sorry for being long winded. -- bryan

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RE: [Xotcl] xotcllib?
by Schofield, Bryan (GE Transportation) 18 Oct '04

18 Oct '04

Ack! What a shame. I've been working on six utility packages that are very close to being ready for public consumption. I'm just waiting on 1.3.3 to make sure everything works well with the finalized namespace scoping implementation. It has all been written against the 1.3 feature set. So far I have the following packages: xow - A megawidget framework. This is a package that allows xotcl objects to be megawidgets. xol - Yet another logging framework. But since this is object oriented, this package provides some features that are not available in other packages. Foremost, the ability to use "Formatter" and "Receiver" objects. For example, the following simple line: $logger warn "Ack! Foo" could be able to log to file or console, package the message up as XML and send it over the network, or even feed an RSS stream depending on the formatter & receiver the logger is using. So far, I've only written a simple formatter and output channel receiver, but this is all possible. xtend - a collection of "singleton" objects that extends the basic functionality of tcl, tk, and xotcl. This package provides various string, list, tk, and xotcl utilities. xact - an "action" framework package. If you are not familiar with the "action" concept in ui programming, it is a very powerful tool that simplifies programming chores. wiki.tcl.tk has some information available. This package can also be used in a non-tk environment. xcentuate - a theme engine for tk. This isn't all that important on windows, but on unix tk often needs a little help looking good. This package provides a very simple method of defining and changing the look of tk apps. It can even do it on the fly. xout - a unit testing framework. I know, I know, tcl already provides one, tcltest. But I found tcltest to be too cumbersome and clunky. I'd write some tests, but maintaining those tests often was neglected because of the amount of programming overhead needed to write complex test cases. xout (X Out) simplifies unit tests. xout is only a framework, so I wrote graphical utility "xam" (think Exam) that puts xout to work. It is what I'm using these days to run my unit tests. I mention all of this because if other have some handy xotcl packages, I'd be interested in creating a formal xotcllib project. Perhaps something at sourceforge. I'll be making these available soon either way. -- bryan > -----Original Message----- > From: xotcl-bounces(a)alice.wu-wien.ac.at > [mailto:xotcl-bounces@alice.wu-wien.ac.at]On Behalf Of Gustaf Neumann > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:03 PM > To: xotcl(a)alice.wu-wien.ac.at > Subject: Re: [Xotcl] xotcllib? > > > On Friday 15 October 2004 18:47, Schofield, Bryan $GE > Transportation$ wrote: > > Does xotcllib, or some other collection of XOTcl utility > packages exist? > just the library that comes with the source in xotcl*/library > -gustaf > > -- > Univ.Prof. Dr.Gustaf Neumann > Abteilung für Wirtschaftsinformatik und Neue Medien > Wirtschaftsuniversität Wien, Augasse 2-6, 1090 Wien > _______________________________________________ > Xotcl mailing list > Xotcl(a)alice.wu-wien.ac.at > http://alice.wu-wien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/xotcl >

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xotcllib?
by Schofield, Bryan (GE Transportation) 15 Oct '04

15 Oct '04

Does xotcllib, or some other collection of XOTcl utility packages exist?

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1.3.3 Plans?
by Schofield, Bryan (GE Transportation) 10 Oct '04

10 Oct '04

Just curious on the plans for the next official release of xotcl. I know that there have been a few issues that Gustaf & Uwe have been mulling over since the first 1.3 release. In particular, the namespace scoping handling that made it's debut then was removed in Uwe's 1.3.2 unofficial, interim build. I ask because I have some code that I've been working on that I started when I was testing Gustaf's original implementation before 1.3. I think (hope) that others will these libraries useful, but I hesitate to make them public until the namespace scoping has settled. Anyway, just curious. -- bryan

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komodo debugger incompatibility with xotcl
by Aamer Akhter 07 Oct '04

07 Oct '04

Hello, Has anybody run into weirdness with the komodo tcl debugger and xotcl? Sorry to be so imprecise, but that's the best way I can describe it right now. -- Aamer Akhter / aakhter(a)gmail.com

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XOtcl 1.3 bug
by Attilio Dona` 06 Oct '04

06 Oct '04

Hy Gustaf and Uwe, We have the following bug: package require XOTcl namespace import xotcl::* xotcl::Class::Parameter create Param -parameter { {value ""} } Class create MA -superclass Class MA parameter {{v -Class {Param -value ciao} -default 1}} MA create A puts "A exists pippo: [A exists pippo]" set pippo 10 puts "A exists pippo: [A exists pippo]" --> A exists pippo: 0 --> A exists pippo: 1 This is true if you have at least one parameter defined for a Metaclass and for every global variable defined! ciao Attilio -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by replying to webmaster(a)telecomitalia.it. Thank you www.telecomitalia.it --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Xotcl] experience installing xotcl on MacOsX ?
by Catherine Letondal 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

Gustaf Neumann wrote: > On Friday 17 September 2004 19:19, Catherine Letondal wrote: >> Dear members of xotcl the list, >> >> Has someone any experience in installing XOtcl on MacOsX ? >> I have found a "Portfile" but I don't know what to do with it? > > Catherine, > > isn't the Mac OS X Tcl/Tk Aqua 8.4.7 Release something for > you to use, it contains XOTcl binaries..... > > http://groups.google.at/groups?q=xotcl&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF > -8&scoring=d&selm=pgpmoose.200408041618.26617%40despot.non.net&rnum=8 Thanks for the advice! I have indeed installed the TclTkAquaBI and tried but it'svery complicated. I don't know whether you can help ? 1) I need to build my own wish with shared objects (libtcl.dylib etc...) which are not provided in TclTkAquaBI distribution - even using it together with the native Tcl.framework you don't have the *.h files etc...). So I decided to use the Fink tcl/tk distribution which works fine. 2) Using the TclTkAquaBI (the one which includes xotcl-1.2) is also not easy when you want to link an xotcl shared object (called /Library/Tcl/xotcl1.2/libxotcl1.2.dylib) First, because you need xotcl.h, so you have to download separately the sources that have been used for building the shared library (sources are kindly distributed from http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/8.4.7.html). Even using libxotcl.dylib file distributed in TclAquaBI not not make sense for a simple reason: if I need another package (such as BLT), which is not distributed in TclAquaBI, I will also have to compile it myself, which is very difficult when it is not configured for this purpose (blt is also distributed in Fink). 3) So, sy conclusion was to compile Xotcl myself, which I did, I think, successfully. configure; ./configure --with-tcl=/sw/lib --with-tclinclude=/sw/include --with-tk=/sw/lib --with-tkinclude=/sw/include I just got errors when building xowish: gcc -pipe -rdynamic -o xowish tkAppInit.o \ xotcl.o xotclError.o xotclMetaData.o xotclObjectData.o xotclProfile.o xotclTrace.o xotclUtil.o xotclShadow.o xotclCompile.o aolstub.o xotclStubInit.o \ -O3 -Wall -Wconversion -Wno-implicit-int -fno-common -L/sw/lib -ltcl8.4 \ gcc: unrecognized option `-rdynamic' ld: Undefined symbols: _Tk_Init _Tk_MainEx _Tk_SafeInit Apparently also: ==> -ltk8.4 is missing ? But xotclsh was successfully built. 4) then, I built a very simple tkAppinit.c: #include "tk.h" #include <xotcl.h> int main(argc, argv) int argc; /* Number of command-line arguments. */ char **argv; /* Values of command-line arguments. */ { Tk_Main(argc, argv, Tcl_AppInit); return 0; /* Needed only to prevent compiler warning. */ } int Tcl_AppInit(interp) Tcl_Interp *interp; /* Interpreter for application. */ { if (Tcl_Init(interp) == TCL_ERROR) { return TCL_ERROR; } if (Tk_Init(interp) == TCL_ERROR) { return TCL_ERROR; } Tcl_StaticPackage(interp, "Tk", Tk_Init, Tk_SafeInit); if (Xotcl_Init(interp) == TCL_ERROR) { return TCL_ERROR; } Tcl_Import(interp, Tcl_GetGlobalNamespace(interp), "xotcl::*", 1); if (Tcl_PkgRequire(interp, "XOTcl", XOTCLVERSION, 1) == NULL) { return TCL_ERROR; } return TCL_OK; } I got an executable (miniwish) built with the following compile/link commands (with some warnings): gcc -fno-common -DXOTCLVERSION=\"1.3.1\" -c -I/sw/include -I/sw/include -I/usr/include/X11 -I/sw/include tkAppInit.c gcc -bind_at_load -o minibiokwish tkAppInit.o -L/sw/lib -ltk8.4 -L/sw/lib -ltcl8.4 -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXmu -L/sw/lib/xotcl1.3.1 -lxotcl1.3.1 -lm ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _tclPlatStubsPtr /sw/lib/libtcl8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclPlatStubsPtr /sw/lib/libtk8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclPlatStubsPtr ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _tclIntStubsPtr /sw/lib/libtcl8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclIntStubsPtr /sw/lib/libtk8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclIntStubsPtr ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _Tcl_InitStubs /sw/lib/libtcl8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _Tcl_InitStubs /sw/lib/libtk8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _Tcl_InitStubs ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _tclIntPlatStubsPtr /sw/lib/libtcl8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclIntPlatStubsPtr /sw/lib/libtk8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclIntPlatStubsPtr ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _tclStubsPtr /sw/lib/libtcl8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclStubsPtr /sw/lib/libtk8.4.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclStubsPtr /sw/lib/xotcl1.3.1/libxotcl1.3.1.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclPlatStubsPtr /sw/lib/xotcl1.3.1/libxotcl1.3.1.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclIntStubsPtr /sw/lib/xotcl1.3.1/libxotcl1.3.1.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclStubsPtr /sw/lib/xotcl1.3.1/libxotcl1.3.1.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _tclIntPlatStubsPtr /sw/lib/xotcl1.3.1/libxotcl1.3.1.dylib(tclStubLib.o) definition of _Tcl_InitStubs But this executable does not work correctly: ./minibiokwish dyld: ./minibiokwish can't open library: libxotcl1.3.1.dylib (No such file or directory, errno = 2) Trace/BPT trap (executed from an X11 environment - not Aqua - of course). -- Catherine Letondal -- Pasteur Institute Computing Center

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Segmentation fault
by Kristoffer Lawson 24 Sep '04

24 Sep '04

I'm getting a segmentation fault in relation to XOTcl. I believe the situation that causes it is as follows: * I have an object C which has a child M. * M has a fileevent callback. * On receiving complete message, M calls a method in C. * If that is an empty message, C destroys itself and closes the socket in the destructor (M is still in fileevent callback). After that I get a segmentation fault. But.. this only happens if I have my debug outputs turned on! They are just normal Tcl [puts] stuff, wrapped around in other things. The thing is I am unable to recreate this with a trivial piece of code so I'm finding it very difficult to pinpoint the exact cause (even, indeed if it is XOTcl at fault or if I have found a Tcl bug). Sorry for the very vague report. I wish I could be more specific. If it's any help, at one point, instead of a segmentation fault, I got: alloc: invalid block: 0x81264a0: b0 8 ef Aborted My guess, something is being freed before it should. Let me know if there's anything more I can do to help find this problem. / http://www.fishpool.com/~setok/

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